The Platonic concept, exposed in the Timaeus dialogue about the formation of the universe starting from the two elements of form and matter, is taken up and explored in depth by Aristotle who uses it for defining ousia, that is the substance, conceived as synolo: indissoluble union of form and matter (hylemorphism).
At the end of our conversation, Loris Moretto, director of communications at Marsèll, spoke about form as a substantial element for creating, for expressing art.
I found it inspiring, deeply cerebral and anachronistically futuristic.
Andrea Rossi, VP and Chief Commercial Officer, has defined the contours of a brand that was born as a dream, he has given substance to a form that is essence: a magnificent expression of human capital.
Founded in 2001 in the province of Venice, a district renowned for the production of luxury leather goods, Marsèll is an independent Italian brand that has been producing high-quality leather footwear and accessories for over 20 years, combining tradition and innovation.
Marsèll shoes and bags are characterized by their essential and delicate lines but also by their strong volumes, which characterize the brand in its choice of a timeless aesthetic.
Marsèll establishes itself as a contemporary project dedicated to the study and exploration of form, in all its semantic declinations, developing new construction techniques and preserving the heritage of artisanal production. Marsèll footwear is distinctive, challenging conventions with unparalleled boldness and style. From derby shoes to ballet flats, from sandals to boots, each creation is a statement of individuality and originality. It is a naturally niche brand that tells the story of being which, passing through form, becomes art.
Andrea, thank you for accepting the invitation. Can you explain to our audience what Marsèll is?
Andrea Rossi – Marsèll is a bit like all of us, it’s what is no longer perceived in the market. We are a company made up of people who are carrying out a process, a path they have believed in since they founded it, with values, with rules that are a little distant from the traditional mechanisms of the fashion system.
We are much more focused on doing than appearing, we are very focused on creating products that have no seasonality, products with attention to sustainability in unsuspecting times, while today it has become a fashionable term.
In summary, for those who know us or for those who don’t know us, we are a simple company that doesn’t like the spotlight. We are a group of people who work hard and try to carry forward an idea with a true message, trying to meet as much as possible an extended community that shares these principles, values and a movement in the fashion sector within which unfortunately or fortunately we are. We must stick to the times of the sales campaigns, to the times of the matches, we must stop at the processes of sharing content, requests for information, interviews with often already pre-established answers. For example, I’m speaking right now but I’m just one of the people who make up the company. There are more people, more voices. The designer himself, my partner Marco, has his own way of expressing himself and describing the brand. Telling who we are in a short time is not easy because it took us almost 25 years to try to build our identity and therefore it is about the daily work that we all do together.
Marsèll is an extended community, it is a table of intellects, it is a community that chooses to share this type of approach to “matter” where the design-concept passes through the products which can be shoes, accessories, bags, but it is also a philosophy of life with the ambition of building and supporting excellence.
I don’t know if you know us well, we touch other creative fields transversally: art and communication above all.
The attention of my partner Marco is always aimed at giving value to truth in doing things, everything has a common thread.
He imagined and established Paradise which is a contemporary art gallery, today mentioned in the Guidebook of Milano. As I said, Marsèll is a movement that carries forward a philosophy of life that passes through shoes and bags. It is a community of values. I can allow myself to jokingly say that “we are the resistance against the empire”.
In the end today the numbers win, the turnover wins, mediocrity wins.
We do our best, I think we are among the very few independents. Ours is an almost family-run company, of small-medium size, which must be related to – and not contextualized, from my point of view – to the sacred monsters.
Marsèll is a dream dreamed by some, entrepreneurs and creatives.
Marsèll is resistance that materializes in the quality of the products we make.
Marsèll has existed for over twenty years. We talked about dreams, like when exactly this dream was born? And why?
Basically it was born from Marco and his desire to give life to the project of a brand that we talked about when we were young boys.
At the time he was working in his father’s shops but didn’t want to stay and so the two souls – mine more external, more commercial, more strategic, more organizational and his more creative, more linked to the material, the product and the vision of the path of the brand in the world – gave the spark to this thing that was only in our heads and was nowhere else.
From there we began to add pieces, to add people and to grow until we became a company, an Italian PM with all its strengths and weaknesses and all the problems we face on a daily basis.
Marsèll is expanding in Asia, mainly in China and I have to ask you what are the main differences you find between the Chinese market and the European one and how do you strategically position yourself on that type of market today?
This is an important and very interesting question.
We and in this case me in my more pragmatic sphere because I am constantly in the markets, I returned from China a month ago and I continue to go there often. But not only in China, after China I spent three weeks in North America, Mexico, Canada, so I did an important tour and we try to approach and manage the markets while respecting the local culture and market dynamics.
Let me explain, every market has a time to learn and understand a process.
Let’s use the fashion concept!
Every culture has times to metabolize it, digest it and mature in order to be able to have a broader and more balanced vision and awareness of the various brands and products within its market.
Over the last 20 years we have seen some markets explode: Russia, the Arab countries, China, among others.
In China I have recently noticed a much deeper cultural acceleration with many openings of small boutiques that express themselves with a research totally distant from the top brands, an interesting and niche research.
There is a maturity in the market, a desire to start mixing, not to be one-way and swallowed up by logos and bug names. The desire to criticize the big names is far from me, it’s just an objectivity of what happens in the market, there is room for everyone. Everyone took advantage of China, everyone in general.
During the last years, we tried to “contain”, contain the distribution in China as we did in previous years in other markets, because it was not in our interest to inflate the presence of the brand either at a B2B or a B2C level.
On the contrary the perspective has always been that of holding back a bit and leaving a bit of appetite, because in the end you know the markets can get tired quickly.
Going back to the point of your question, for us the Chinese market is not an opportunity to make money quickly as has happened for many, but it is an opportunity to enter the market in the most balanced and fair way possible so that there is a community that includes the brand in one department store rather than another, in one boutique rather than another and in all cities. Absorb its DNA. We have noticed that by waiting a little for certain dynamics that this is the right strategy for us and we notice an interest in the product. Fast growth scares us because then I know you fall just as quickly.
What is the biggest challenge that you find yourself facing in practice, on a daily basis, in such a different and vast market?
Surely the biggest challenge is to remain interesting but in the way closest to what we mean, not what they mean in B2B.
Let me explain, I have great respect for the Chinese people because they are very dry in doing business, they are not very romantic but it is not an offense, it is an advantage, it is a compliment, unlike us Italians, Europeans.
If you are interesting you work, they buy you, they run after you and take you up.
If you are no longer interesting you go down, without many frills.
This is the biggest challenge, that is, being able to be interesting but not because they are forced to buy you in order to sell and make a lot of money, but because they see an added value in having you in their stores. Having this appropriate cultural match to enter the culture and the socio-cultural-economic part of the market allows the brand to be respected, sought after and wanted.
The challenge, I say it again, is to be able to remain interesting not only when you are interesting for the money, for the business, but when you are interesting for a long-term value, cultural mainly.
We began a journey that we continue with coherence and concreteness, and after the opening of the flagship store in via Spiga – which opened the doors of the fashion quadrilateral in Milano – and of the temporary store in collaboration with L`Eclaireur – a historic partner of Marsèll – it is now the turn of the opening of a permanent corner in collaboration with ZL Philosophy in Zhujishi, one of the most dynamic realities of the luxury sector in China. ZL Philosophy is a consolidated partner of Marsèll. It has long been a point of reference for European luxury in the Chinese city of Zhujishi. In
April, an agreement was signed which provided for the opening of a permanent corner within their city space. The layout of the 40 m2 corner is in line with the aesthetics of the Marsèll flagship store in Milano. Thanks to this operation, the brand maintains its expansion forecasts in the East.
Marsèll is already worn by some very important names in the Chinese celebrity system such as Jimin, what kind of process did you take to ensure that these names recognized themselves in the brand and its values and then went on to convey it through their social networks?
I’ll answer you in two ways. The first: I would like to go with you to China and meet 5 of these people to interview them and ask them why. It would be super interesting, and fun too.
Second: we moved with an organic and fair growth of wholesale distribution. Then, in unsuspecting times, through a local partner, we purchased Weibo, Wechat, Little Red Book and began to – I use this somewhat strong word – “manifest” ourselves with our tone of voice in their world, we used their social networks where they are very strong and prepared.
We approached their language, their way of communicating and being informed, revealing the brand with an authentically Marsèll way of communicating, not very aggressive, low profile and starting an educational process by telling what Marsèll is and wants to be.
Let’s say that this process has been much criticized in general, both internally within the company and externally, both in China and by the various stakeholders, but the balanced, precise distribution, the balanced and precise quantity of product, this move perhaps has led to make certain quality influencers understand the value of the brand.
They themselves went to buy Marsèll despite receiving gifts every day and being paid by other brands.
They recognize themselves in our philosophy.
What is art for you in 2024?
I would be happy if Marco, the soul who manages this part, could answer.
I can tell what I have witnessed and ideally collected for more than 25 years.
I totally reset myself and chose to be an ambassador and spread our values to the world, Marco’s strong vision.
I can tell you that art is in the very DNA of the brand. We have chosen to invest heavily in a department, in people, in an idea.
Shoes are a piece of art and therefore everything we create has this underlying idea. We don’t have to make shoes and to sell. There are probably many companies that are perhaps better than us, have more success and more money than us but our approach to the object – whatever the accessory is (shoes, bags, designer pieces) – is strenuously linked to ‘art.
We opened the flagship in Milan during the Salone del Mobile and we have the best quality entrances and takings during the Fashion Weeks. Does it mean something? Marsèll is aimed at that type of people, that type of market, of community that understands the artistic value of the brand, art that expresses itself at 360 degrees.
Instead, a somewhat provocative question which perhaps isn’t provocative, Marsèll in a contemporary way is a new symbol of Made in Italy.
But today, in your opinion, what value does Made in Italy still have at an international level?
Luca, I must say that you asked some weighty questions, and I congratulate you. We are living in, I hope I don’t pass it off as boring, a very, very challenging and difficult moment on a social, political and economic level.
Let’s think about Ukraine and the Middle Eastern crisis.
Then I observe what happens on a political level in Europe, in the world.
I’m touching on a delicate and difficult area, but why did I start from there? Because human beings need culture.
Art nourishes culture.
Culture improves skills, improves the quality level of people, creates strong values and a strong Country with strong companies.
We are living in the laurels of what our grandparents did, perhaps our parents, this does not mean that the new generation is not positive and proactive. I have two 20-year-old kids who are an example of that, there are beautiful people everywhere, it is not a single cluster. However, we must do more. We must have the intellectual honesty to try to push a movement, a strong change, a cultural and values movement.
We must unite, be proactive, then that Made in Italy that you ask me will perhaps have a strong, true and more conscious value, more intrinsic than the word, otherwise we soon risk being bought by the Chinese and becoming Disneyland. Italy risks becoming a toy.
There are beautiful companies, splendid realities at all levels, young and old people, authentically Italian excellence.
I am a positive person and I believe in the future. We have to work hard every day, demonstrating in a factual way that the value chain is truly Italian. If we boast of being Italian but you have production in five different countries, with five different shipments, what have you done? You have polluted, you have lied and you are not Italian.
We talked about art and also about shoes as an art form. Art is a form of expression, but can fashion at this moment still be a form of expression and a form of expression linked to a specific vision?
It’s my personal opinion.
I think that art and fashion can be synonymous and must be free, the market will then judge and transversal dynamics will be created.
I think there shouldn’t be restrictions like in everyday life.
I believe that art and fashion are two very important forms of expression, they must be cultivated, they must be nurtured, they must be let go and there is no right or wrong, there is no good or bad, it’s all questionable in life, luckily.
Loris Moretto – I’m sorry for arriving late, but unfortunately I wasn’t able to connect immediately, sometimes I have problems with Zoom.
I listened to Andrea. I have to say that he told you exactly everything we’re working on, so I’ll make a quick aside.
The connection with art starts from the form, without the form there is no shoe and even today Marsèll’s shoes are developed starting from a block of wood that is worked by hand like a sculpture. This is the main connection there is with art and from this form we started to explore.
The form declined in every semantic declination and therefore here painting rather than dance, rather than photography, rather than audiovisual art and so Street.
Another point I would like to focus on is the one linked to the historical moment in which we are living.
There is a great economic contraction that forces many brands to take market share without ever having had a history with certain products.
They try to take market share by polluting their brand, for example producing sneakers or similar that they have never produced and far from the brands’ heritage.
We have come to have a lot of pieces around but they have no correlation with the brands that produce them.
Marsèll in its history, albeit short, has never made sneakers and has never winked at the mass market.
This consistency is rewarded today and, fortunately, the consistency with which the brand has communicated and tried to show itself to the world in recent years is also rewarded.
Marsèll has always remained consistent with his own identity.
And finally the question relating to experience, as last point: we have worked a lot in trying to use both our physical and digital spaces through the creation of experiences: the experience of a performance, the experience of an exhibition, the experience of a live show. At the same time we used our social channels to share our knowledge, to share projects and initiatives that had points of contact directly with us but that perhaps many people did not know about and which gave us the opportunity to get to know them.
Sharing knowledge is a fundamental point.
Knowledge which is passion. You must have passion, when you have the passion to create a piece of art but also to create a pure, quality object that lasts over time like a piece of art it means that there is concrete work behind it.
It’s not a job that starts from a commercial strategy that maybe sometimes isn’t even correct and then you have to deal with the fact that you’ve made mistakes. It arises from the purity with which these initiatives are undertaken and which seek to move towards a product that is first of all long-lived both from the point of view of quality and from the point of view of design and what I find in Marsèll and I find in a few other other brands it’s being able to share the brand’s values with its audience. When you manage to have a community that follows you and recognizes itself in those values and manages to export them as we have seen with Chinese but also European and American celebrities, you have won.
Basically when a small brand manages to do that, it’s how that brand manages to win in the market because then, in other ways, it’s difficult to compete with the giants of the industry.
